Update: Nick recently released Put Things Off for iPhone and iPod touch [App Store link], a mobile task manager that I love and recently reviewed on TUAW. What follows is an interview I conducted with Nick in April of ‘08.
We live in a world obsessed with technology. Consider how quickly things move — twenty-five years ago, we had thirteen channels on TV (most of them snow), the Mac had a 8 MHz processor and the lucky among us owned a typewriter. Today, keeping up with the latest and greatest is a full-time job.
We’re also obsessed with productivity. Worse than that, we’re obsessed with being obsessed with productivity. There’s got to be a point where a person says, “Enough.”
A few months ago, I discovered Put Things Off, a productivity blog by Nick Cernis. It’s different than most — Nick writes about simplicity in a way that appeals to freelancers and office workers. He recently release his first eBook, Todoodlist* which I enjoyed very much.
I had a conversation with him about the book and our relationship with technology in general, which I’ve published below. Enjoy.
DC: When did you launch Put Things Off and what was your inspiration?
NC: Put Things Off was launched on 3 January 2008. About 5 years ago, I’d hatched a plan to start a business and live the dream of working from home; the idea of a ‘downstairs commute’ was a powerful one. I spent many of those years studying business and marketing theory in between a university course and full-time work. I became obsessed with productivity systems, reading everything I could get my hands on and dabbling with new software and gadgets the day they came out.
Then one day on my commute back from work I was involved in a traffic accident. Shortly afterwards, I started getting terrible migraines. As I went into the CT scanner to have my head checked out (something my girlfriend joked was “long overdue”), I found myself thinking, “What if they find something bad? What if this is it? What the hell am I doing with my life?” I realised I’d spent the last few years reading, tinkering, planning, and dreaming whilst I soldiered away as a wage slave for no good reason. In the words of a certain British band, I was working for the cash machine.
I decided I’d put things off long enough. I gave myself 3 months to choose one of my business plans and take the steps to launch it. With planning and some good luck, I did it. I started Put Things Off on the one year anniversary of our business, Goburo, firstly as a reward to myself and secondly, in the hope of helping others to simplify their lives, find focus, and learn to laugh at their own idiosyncracies a little. I hope I can encourage people not to put things off until it’s too late; I’d love to think that you could find the clarity to move on with your life without having a traffic accident!
DC: The “Downstairs Commute.” That’s awesome. Let’s talk about the book, Todoodlist. At first glance, it seems odd that an admitted tech geek would write a book about abandoning “technology,” as it were. However, upon further inspection, one finds that isn’t the case. You’re just replacing the technological tools you use on a day-to-day basis. Is that an accurate assessment?
NC: Sure — I’d clarify it by saying that I ditched the technological tools that don’t work. There’s a massive social pressure to adopt the latest gadgets simply for the sake of flaunting them as loudly as possible. There’s also a growing falsehood in business circles that you must be constantly connected in order to run a successful company. I simply woke up and realised that both were really bad reasons to use hard tech — I’d fallen into the technology trap.
I was using my PDA, in spite of its many weaknesses, because of the pressure in business and social circles to abide by the unwritten rule of the modern age: “thou shalt honour thy BlackBerry”. I can’t tell you how wonderful it felt to be free of that and to simply go back to pencil and paper. Suddenly the headaches were gone.
I have friends who still have crazy 3-6 month upgrade cycles and five figure debts built on the back of their shiny new toys. Sure — they have a lot of gadgets, but they’ve got many more final demand letters on their doormats and, let’s be honest, it must be tough waking up to that every morning. Is it really worth it? I mean, a pencil costs 20 cents, right?
Don’t get me wrong — I love technology. I’m not advocating we turn all the lights out for good or anything silly like that. I love email and enjoy working on the Mac. I simply feel that people could benefit from being re-educated in the sensible use of technology. When you find yourself addicted to software, gadgets and gizmos simply because they’re there, you’ve got a problem, in my opinion. The more people I can convince to beat their addiction, the better.
DC: In part one of the book, you state “…Smart companies are also realizing that the great gadgets are ones that fulfil a genuine need; not those that appeal on cool factor alone.” That reminded me of a quote Kawika Holbrook at the Web 2.0 company 37signals who said, “Cool wears off. Useful never does.” Why or how do you think companies (and individuals) become so distracted by the very cool but marginally useful things in their lives, and how can they “snap out of it”?
NC: Part of it’s down to successful advertising. Another part of it’s due to irresponsible lending by banks and loan-providers. A friend recently phoned me to say he was going to buy a MacBook Air. I asked him straight out: “how are you paying for it?” I’m pretty blunt like that, with good friends. He was planning to take out a loan and pay it off at the minimum rate. I did some quick sums and told him it would have cost him almost $15,000 by the time he’d paid it back. “Do you really need it?” I asked. “Not that badly”, he replied. “Buy a bigger envelope”, I said.
People just need to stop, take responsibility for their spending and evaluate purchases with their heads instead of their hearts. If you’re buying it to look cool in Starbucks, snap out of it. If you’re buying it on credit, you probably shouldn’t be buying it at all. Likewise, if you’ve spent 3 months deliberating, saving, and weighing up the alternatives and it still looks like a great idea, then go for it. Just realise that you might be doing exactly the same thing a year from now.
As for useful never wearing off — tell that to your fax machine salesman. You’ll find him somewhere in the job seekers queue, next to the harpsichord repairman. Every product and service has it’s lifespan, no matter how useful it once was. It’s one of the reasons I hold the pencil in such high regard. It’s not dead. Yet
DC: I don’t know if you’ve seen The Twilight Zone, but there’s an episode called The Obsolete Man, in which a librarian is deemed “obsolete” and scheduled for termination by a dictatorial police state. It’s an extreme example, but do you think there’s a fear people have that if they don’t adopt the latest and greatest that tech companies have to offer, they’ll be worse off for it?
NC: I think everyone’s naturally curious about new tech; about what it has to offer them. The pressure to adopt it is often great, but people need to learn to make their own decisions. No-one likes to be left behind, but there’s a big difference between being technologically ignorant and simply choosing not to adopt it when it doesn’t fit with your life.
DC: You’ve written several amusing anecdotes in Todoodlist to illustrate different points. One of my favourites is “Einstein Shaving.” Tell me a little bit about that.
NC: Einstein knew simple was best. So did a chap called William of Ockham. “Einstein Shaving” introduces both of these guys in a fun way, with an imaginary scene in which we observe Albert Einstein in his bathroom shaving with Ockham’s razor. I wanted to introduce the concept of “simple is best”, backed up by Einstein and a bloke who wrote in Latin, without losing anyone who thinks that academia is a type of nut that goes well with honey and ice cream.
DC: How would you explain a general overview the Todoodlist?
NC: Todoodlist is about simplifying your life. It focusses on finding fun ways to replace hard tech with a pen(cil) and paper.
DC: You’ve written about David Allen’s highly successful book Getting Things Done, as well as the group of people who seem to spend endless hours tweaking and discussing GTD systems … a group you call “The Productivians.” Tell me a bit about this group.
NC: The productivity and technology industries share some traits. Both have followers who track trends and throw themselves at every new book, device, or piece of software as the ultimate answer to all their problems. I think that overall, GTD is a positive force — most people use it well. But the ones who’ve bent it into a system for living — a holy book, if you will — and not the fairly relaxed set of rules for removing worry from their life that it was intended to be have missed the point. It’s this relatively small but growing subset of individuals who I call The Productivians.
DC: In 2006, you were set to launch you own web app for productivity, Taskjam. Eventually, you pulled the plug on the project. How did that experience affect your current philosophy on productivity?
NC: It taught me more about project management than it did about productivity. I learnt never to jump into a project without first asking, “Why on Earth am I building this thing in the first place?” It also opened my eyes to the fact that I wasn’t the only one creating web apps simply for the sake of it.
DC: You’ve said that “Nothing can embody the concept of simplicity more purely than the paper and pencil.” I whole-heartedly agree, and used both to create my first Todoodlist before I even finished your book! They genuinely are fun to use. Still, I’ve got to ask, is there ever a day when you’re sitting on the train and itching to check your email?
NC: Ha! Email is my one vice. I don’t check it on the train, but I do fully embrace it. I developed a system for managing it better called “Inbox Heaven” that you can read about on Put Things Off. I have hundreds of ideas about how individuals and businesses could improve their email habits — some are pretty radical and some are just common sense. Perhaps I’ll write a book about it some day.
DC: You talk about the importance of delegation in Todoodlist. How do you track items you’ve delegated to ensure they get done in a timely manner?
NC: I choose people I trust to delegate to. If they don’t deliver, I think twice before asking them again. If you find yourself worrying about tracking an item you’ve delegated, you’ve probably delegated it to the wrong person.
DC: Finally, congratulations on the book. I really loved it. Your evangelization of simplicity is very refreshing. Is there anything else you’d like my readers to know that we haven’t discussed?
NC: Thanks a lot — I really appreciate it. I’d just like to say a heartfelt thanks to the many people who’ve supported me, bought the book, and sent kind words and glowing feedback. It’s wonderful to be so warmly received by such a generous community.
———-
Note: The links to the book on this website are affiliate links, meaning I will benefit from your purchase of the book. This is the first time I’ve had advertising on Kaylow, and my motivation is to help Nick sell what I think is a great book, not make tons of money myself. Consider this and any advertising you see here on Kaylow to be an affirmation of a product I really believe in, and not a simple cash grab.
Nick -
Great stuff! Nice to get to know a little more about the man behind the curtain.
I’m 100% with you on the paper/pencil concept.
Thanks for taking the time to give this interview. (And thanks to Kaylow for posting it)
Good interview – it makes me want to go out and buy the book.
Keep up the good work!
Dave
Thanks! Nick was great to collaborate with and I’m glad you enjoyed the interview.
Lilvsimpl
I hope you will! I bet your readers would be into it as well.
Dave — thanks for taking the time to put this together and for supporting the book. It was great fun chatting with you.
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